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ps0u81ff View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ps0u81ff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 February 2013 at 02:28
Holidaybreak are paying £683 per month for Apprentice Couriers this year, not sure about those not doing the apprenticeship, or other companies.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote YourMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2013 at 10:06
Hey Pancellorum,

Have you tried claiming anything back? I just called the number on the .gov website. The guy told me that GB minimum wage doesn't apply to workers employed by a British company but placed abroad.
I seem to be getting this answer a lot when I try to get more information on this.
Anyone here actually claimed something back?
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pancellorum View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pancellorum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 February 2013 at 17:46
Your quite right about not coming under the minimum wage rules..big scam this with companies, although it's changinging as the French are insisting that people should get a similar wage as the people of the country you are working in.
The companies have been getting away with this for years.
They give you a contract but nothing in it is applicable if you are working outside the UK.
You can't claim anything back but you can claim 'working credits' from the UK but you must apply before you leave the UK.
The form is bit involved but worth Big smileit...I got nearly a £1000 more for the season.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote herecomesthesun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2013 at 20:10
yeah, you don't do it for the money, but if there's anything up for grabs then lets 'ave it! But think these companies haven't checked all this out already, of course they have! But if anyone does get anywhere with the Rev, then let hear it. I doubt it very much though!

Edited by herecomesthesun - 15 February 2013 at 20:31
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote YourMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 February 2013 at 13:51
"..don't do it for the money...", these companies have been getting away with it for years because of the "you don't do it for the money" attitude.
Why shouldn't one do it for the money?

The companies are most definitely doing it for the money.
Being able to travel and "meet people from all over" should be benefits, not used as actual payment. HolidayBreak made around £30,000,000 profit last year. How much of that would've been made off the backs off teenagers and "hard working" 20-25 year olds being forced to do extra hours? How much of that will be given out to couriers who have gone the extra yard and worked through their lunch on a Saturday?
Not having a go at you herecomesthesun (my favourite on Abbey Road btw), I just think it's a big issue that needs looking at. All of these companies have horribly unethical "maximise profits" business models. Employee rights are the last thing on their mind.


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sunaholic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sunaholic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 February 2013 at 17:31

Try and find my topic "Benefits in Kind" which I wrote about  2 years ago. I've been hammering on about this for ages. A lot of people don't want to lose the chance of a job by rocking the boat, but really couriers are just being exploited.  
Originally posted by YourMum YourMum wrote:

"..don't do it for the money...", these companies have been getting away with it for years because of the "you don't do it for the money" attitude.
Why shouldn't one do it for the money?

The companies are most definitely doing it for the money.
Being able to travel and "meet people from all over" should be benefits, not used as actual payment. HolidayBreak made around £30,000,000 profit last year. How much of that would've been made off the backs off teenagers and "hard working" 20-25 year olds being forced to do extra hours? How much of that will be given out to couriers who have gone the extra yard and worked through their lunch on a Saturday?
Not having a go at you herecomesthesun (my favourite on Abbey Road btw), I just think it's a big issue that needs looking at. All of these companies have horribly unethical "maximise profits" business models. Employee rights are the last thing on their mind.




Edited by sunaholic - 16 February 2013 at 17:34
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote YourMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 February 2013 at 12:14
I can't find the article you're talking about.
I agree though, couriers are being taken advantage of. It seems like things are getting better. I've heard some right horror stories over the years. The worst is when people will use their experience of being overworked as a badge of honour:
"We did 12 hours today and worked through our lunch! Didn't we lads? Yeah! We're the A TEAM."
"I had to move all those fridges on my own in an hour. Blasted it and got it done in 45 minutes. I'm f=#ked now though."
"I've got 8 cleans to do today then I'm on night duty and I've got check outs in the morning."
You hear things like this all the time. It's always used as bragging rights about how strong/dedicated the "van lads" are or how proud the team leader is that everyone pulled together to get through that mad arrival day.
I even heard a story about montage guys getting arrested in Croatia because they weren't supposed to be working there. I don't know how much truth there is in that, but I definitely remember loads of couriers being kicked out of Croatia about 7 years ago.

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sunaholic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sunaholic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 February 2013 at 12:48
Originally posted by YourMum YourMum wrote:

I can't find the article you're talking about.
I agree though, couriers are being taken advantage of. It seems like things are getting better. I've heard some right horror stories over the years. The worst is when people will use their experience of being overworked as a badge of honour:
"We did 12 hours today and worked through our lunch! Didn't we lads? Yeah! We're the A TEAM."
"I had to move all those fridges on my own in an hour. Blasted it and got it done in 45 minutes. I'm f=#ked now though."
"I've got 8 cleans to do today then I'm on night duty and I've got check outs in the morning."
You hear things like this all the time. It's always used as bragging rights about how strong/dedicated the "van lads" are or how proud the team leader is that everyone pulled together to get through that mad arrival day.
I even heard a story about montage guys getting arrested in Croatia because they weren't supposed to be working there. I don't know how much truth there is in that, but I definitely remember loads of couriers being kicked out of Croatia about 7 years ago.

To find my 'Benefits in Kind' topic click on Camping in Europe Chat and then go to Page 7. It's about half-way down. Regarding working in Croatia. We were told last year that only Coratians were allowed to work there so if some montage guys were arrested then their company should be held criminally negligent because they should have known. Which of course. illustrates that we're taken for granted and treated quite shabbily.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote YourMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 February 2013 at 16:27
Thanks for that.
That whole thread just made me rage about how apathetic people are about it. The worst thing is couriers are actually DEFENDING the company's right to treat them like crap.
Kids nowadays!
I spoke to some friends earlier today and it's true about the Croatia thing. HB couldn't send a whole montage team so they sent 2 guys to instruct and aid the Croatian agency fellas. Unfortunately HB didn't get the correct work visas and the 2 guys ended up in court! Now, although no jail time was served by either of them and the matter (as I understand) was resolved quickly I don't think there was any apology given by HB and certainly no offer of compensation.
HolidayBreak are the absolute worst for this kind of thing.
I've been out of camping for a few years now and I'm shocked to find this type of stuff still happens. I might write to my MP and ask her to investigate this for me Wink


Edited by YourMum - 19 February 2013 at 16:29
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herecomesthesun View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote herecomesthesun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 February 2013 at 20:30
Its always amazes me that couriers don't seem to be aware that Croatia is outside the EU and has its own laws as such . Obviously, you can't go work there without documetation and be legal. The amount of new couriers I've said that to over the past few seasons and they look sooooo dissappointed when they find that out. Its not just HB that are at it with Croatia either. British couriers should know they can't work in Croatia, just like Ski Reps should know what they can't do in France!
 
And I'm out of it to now, the best days of camping are gone. And I have done all of the list in the "badge of honour"  and more! You have to love it to survive for any length of time.
 
Your Mum let us know how  you get on with the MP, if anywhere please!
 


Edited by herecomesthesun - 20 February 2013 at 20:36
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pancellorum View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pancellorum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 February 2013 at 13:42
To follow on from all this, I'm in the process of taking the Company I worked for last Year to an Industrial Tribunal. This is over National Minimum Wage, hours worked and Breach of contract.
Apparently we are not covered by the NMW, due to working outside the UK, but you are covered by the rules of the Country you are working in. It also turns out that everything else in the Contract is not relevant either as it's outside the UK, and yet I have a contract signed by both parties.
So now I m trying to get them for illegal breach of contract.

Will let you know

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sunaholic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 February 2013 at 14:40
I wrote to my MP last year about the atrocious conditions we were expected to live in and pointed out this. Imagine an immigrant coming to work in the UK and being given a tent to live in. And then told to use the public toilets and showers 300 yards down the road. There would be an uproar! I got a reply back which gave details of some sort of European Directive about working abroad. As this went to my daughter's house in the UK  and I am currently in France I still haven't yet seen it, so am not in a position to remark on it. Maybe some sort of naming and shaming should be going on. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shellshock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 February 2013 at 17:11
Evening comrades,
As I understand it from next year all couriers must live in a mobile home. This is not a problem for Al Fresco obviously,  Canvas are implementing it this year & don`t know about HB.
 
Canvas are also no longer manning their receptions except on their big sites, presumably something to do with working hours, they will however have a lot more units per courier but I hear they`re looking at about £1200 a month minus deductions.
 
So swings & roundabouts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote herecomesthesun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 February 2013 at 19:32
 
So swings & roundabouts.
It is so, and its a lyfestyle, not a job. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad things are changing for the better, and hopefully some of the companies, HB in particular will start hiring better quality staff as well (I'm not talking about everyone of course, only some) the laziness of some of the kids was totally unbelievable, (its not a holiday!) Theres a difference between not wanting to work, and not wanting to have the mick taken by the company!. Unfortunately, for some it'll mean the ones that work, will have to work harder, because there are more units per courier now, so I understand it. It will be an interesting season for those there!
 
And keep us posted on the court cases please!
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